Items Research
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John Adams
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Items Research
Lots of new people hitting the site lately, all offering to help in a non-developer way. Well, here's your chance.
Is anyone bored to tears? If not, do you want to be? Here's something I probably asked before, but we're a lot farther along with Items now than in the past year. What we need are Items.
According to our parsed data (over 2600 collected logs), we still only ended up with around 35,400 unique items. Most of us were certain there were LOTS more than this. Like, 500,000. First off, is this true? Is there any evidence to support this quantity?
If you think about an item in Vanguard (or any game, really) when you "craft" an item you take the components - sometimes 1/2 a dozen different "items", and you put them in a machine, shake it up a bit and out spits an end product: Sword of Crafting. So, the 1/2 dozen "items" are all items... uniquely. The outcome is an item, and from my experience with EQ2's data, each different "quality" of outcome is a different item. So for EQ2, there were 4 possible qualities. Now we're looking at 11 items just to create 1 sword.
You guys (Exmortis, falloutdc?) know VG crafting better than I do, since I barely crafted anything in VG. Are the item outcomes the same as EQ2s? Do you get varying results, depending on how "good" you did?
Then, were there any other means to acquire items by combining things together to make a new item? Sockets/Attachments don't count in this case, because they are a unique item that does indeed "snap into" an existing item -- without creating a 3rd.
Items you purchase from vendors; those are what we have most of. We have some from inspecting other players, and perusing the Telon Exchange. We even have drops from certain mobs during collection... but, we likely do not have ALL the loots from ALL the NPCs in Telon.
So here's the mundane task:
Is anyone bored to tears? If not, do you want to be? Here's something I probably asked before, but we're a lot farther along with Items now than in the past year. What we need are Items.
According to our parsed data (over 2600 collected logs), we still only ended up with around 35,400 unique items. Most of us were certain there were LOTS more than this. Like, 500,000. First off, is this true? Is there any evidence to support this quantity?
If you think about an item in Vanguard (or any game, really) when you "craft" an item you take the components - sometimes 1/2 a dozen different "items", and you put them in a machine, shake it up a bit and out spits an end product: Sword of Crafting. So, the 1/2 dozen "items" are all items... uniquely. The outcome is an item, and from my experience with EQ2's data, each different "quality" of outcome is a different item. So for EQ2, there were 4 possible qualities. Now we're looking at 11 items just to create 1 sword.
You guys (Exmortis, falloutdc?) know VG crafting better than I do, since I barely crafted anything in VG. Are the item outcomes the same as EQ2s? Do you get varying results, depending on how "good" you did?
Then, were there any other means to acquire items by combining things together to make a new item? Sockets/Attachments don't count in this case, because they are a unique item that does indeed "snap into" an existing item -- without creating a 3rd.
Items you purchase from vendors; those are what we have most of. We have some from inspecting other players, and perusing the Telon Exchange. We even have drops from certain mobs during collection... but, we likely do not have ALL the loots from ALL the NPCs in Telon.
So here's the mundane task:
- Go through the attached csv, look at the name/description/level of the items we know about (these are ones we got) and tell us what's missing.[/*
3gl1cigv] - How you can do that is to look for something you KNOW existed, but cannot find.[/*3gl1cigv]
- When you find something missing, please hit the web looking for any lootdb's or any wiki's that might contain details of the item.[/*3gl1cigv]
- We can likely rebuild *anything* given we have the data (this includes fixing broken/nerfed/tweaked/and much hated stats adjustments).[/*3gl1cigv][/list:u]
Reason: we cannot do one thing more than our collected data unless you - the player community - gives us direction. For us, the 35,000 items are good enough But you will not be happy if you don't get your Vorpal Sword after beating the big bosses.
One word of warning about this text file -- the linefeeds in the Descriptions throws off a clean import into Excel, so you might have to massage it or use the 2nd file (below) that does not have descriptions.
Lastly, the categories - this just means how we got the item data from the live game (via what opcode)
Acquired - Items traded Assembly - Crafted Bank - stuff from your bank slots Bought - purchased from vendor Buyback - stuff in the vendor buyback list Chest - looted chests? Exchange - Telon Exchange Graft - Necro pet items Inspected - inspecting players Link - pasted item-links in-game chat windows Loot - corpse loot Market - SC Marketplace Merchant - merchant inventory Reward - ??? claim/quest? Server - Items you already owned when you logged in
Xinux, if you remember what the ???'s are, let me know or just edit this post.[/list:u]
Thanks in advance for any info you find and post here in this topic. Even if it's not hundreds or thousands of items, at least it'll be one more item we can add.
Meanwhile, I will work on a way for this community to submit items for inclusion into our data so you can truly feel you are helping the devs out; we could even end up with some custom items made by our rock star community members
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Re: Items Research
Grafts are items that you can put on your necro pets, kinda like gear for the abomination.
Re: Items Research
Crafting did have levels/grades of each item depending on how well you finished them, grade A, B, C, D and also quality types, low quality etc. and they would've all been counted as a unique item, so it looks like that list is missing a ton, since the crafting alone should be bigger than that number :/
There was a quote from Silius (Salim Grant) a while ago that said a rough number for just crafting items but I cannot recall or find it.
Reward - is most likely claim rewards for length of subscription
Server - is most likely server first to level 55 which awarded a personalised bag to the first player on each server, at the time there was Xeth, Seradon and Halgar.
There was a quote from Silius (Salim Grant) a while ago that said a rough number for just crafting items but I cannot recall or find it.
Reward - is most likely claim rewards for length of subscription
Server - is most likely server first to level 55 which awarded a personalised bag to the first player on each server, at the time there was Xeth, Seradon and Halgar.
Re: Items Research
In this case a great majority of items we have are listed as server, so they are not special items. It may just mean that we parsed them using opcodes that were from the server sending over inventory, etc. to a player. I'm not sure how they are parsed.
There are not different item id numbers for the various grades of each crafting result. Think of item id numbers as pointers to the basic information about each item. Then consider the variables that could change each item, such as quality, durability, made_by, num_in_stack, etc. These variables are added to the basic information on an as-needed basis, and stored separately for each particular instance of that item.
When a player creates, say, a grade A item by crafting, additional info about that item is placed in that player's inventory table. The inventory item contains the item_id key (to grab the base information on the item), and then a new unique_id that makes it unique for that particular player. This new unique_id entry in the player's inventory table contains all the variable information, such as that Grade A quality. If that item trades hands, that information is passed to the next player's inventory, and given a new unique_id for that player. If that player has possessed 340 items over their playing career, that Grade A item will be unique_id 341 to them.
When the server sends an item to the client, such as that grade A item, it will grab the basic item information from the item (using the item_id) and merge in the variable fields from that player's particular version of that item, and send it. What we are seeing passed through is the combination of the base item and the additional variables affecting that item.
If we are parsing by item_id, then we are getting all the items we can get. Many variations on one item will have the same item_id. That's ok, because we know the variables, and we know that the crafted item might come in several different qualities, and many different made_by's, and so on. We don't have to find all the different variations in the logs to make our master list complete. It's complete as soon as we get an item_id. The rest can be figured out based on the other fields that go along with that item_id.
That being said, I did have a number of items on my character that I didn't find looking them up a month or two ago in game. The item database may have improved since then, but I am guessing there are quite a few things that were missed and may need to be recreated manually.
There are not different item id numbers for the various grades of each crafting result. Think of item id numbers as pointers to the basic information about each item. Then consider the variables that could change each item, such as quality, durability, made_by, num_in_stack, etc. These variables are added to the basic information on an as-needed basis, and stored separately for each particular instance of that item.
When a player creates, say, a grade A item by crafting, additional info about that item is placed in that player's inventory table. The inventory item contains the item_id key (to grab the base information on the item), and then a new unique_id that makes it unique for that particular player. This new unique_id entry in the player's inventory table contains all the variable information, such as that Grade A quality. If that item trades hands, that information is passed to the next player's inventory, and given a new unique_id for that player. If that player has possessed 340 items over their playing career, that Grade A item will be unique_id 341 to them.
When the server sends an item to the client, such as that grade A item, it will grab the basic item information from the item (using the item_id) and merge in the variable fields from that player's particular version of that item, and send it. What we are seeing passed through is the combination of the base item and the additional variables affecting that item.
If we are parsing by item_id, then we are getting all the items we can get. Many variations on one item will have the same item_id. That's ok, because we know the variables, and we know that the crafted item might come in several different qualities, and many different made_by's, and so on. We don't have to find all the different variations in the logs to make our master list complete. It's complete as soon as we get an item_id. The rest can be figured out based on the other fields that go along with that item_id.
That being said, I did have a number of items on my character that I didn't find looking them up a month or two ago in game. The item database may have improved since then, but I am guessing there are quite a few things that were missed and may need to be recreated manually.
Re: Items Research
My original thought was that that 'server' is mailed items and traded items. The GMs would have to keep track of who sent what and that seems to be the only category that matches. We had a similar setup at Funcom. However, I noticed one of the items is "Board of the Wavebreaker" is a no trade raid drop from Jagund. This might still be the case if this were a /petitioned item and the GM had to give it to the player (This happened very often, we had to petition once every raid night, on average). There's also the possibility that it was put into someone's inventory using the /give command, which a raid leader/master looter can do.
Server might also be when you had to combine quest items in your inventory to form a new one. For example turning the Sphere of Collection into the Sphere of Wind Magic (After killing Hegnarion) and then you click the king's stipe to form magic mushrooms. (Which removes the sphere of collection and the stipe from your inventory). And after checking the list, Magic mushrooms are under 'Server' in the spreadsheet. (But again, this often failed too and required a GM to fix it so it could be GM given).
Since there's only a small number (That I saw) of raid items showing up under Server, it does kinda make me think that it's either because of /give or a GM giving the item to the player. Most of the stuff on there is tradable.
A lot of the items on the reward list, I recognize specifically as quest rewards from quest NPC turnins.
Server might also be when you had to combine quest items in your inventory to form a new one. For example turning the Sphere of Collection into the Sphere of Wind Magic (After killing Hegnarion) and then you click the king's stipe to form magic mushrooms. (Which removes the sphere of collection and the stipe from your inventory). And after checking the list, Magic mushrooms are under 'Server' in the spreadsheet. (But again, this often failed too and required a GM to fix it so it could be GM given).
Since there's only a small number (That I saw) of raid items showing up under Server, it does kinda make me think that it's either because of /give or a GM giving the item to the player. Most of the stuff on there is tradable.
A lot of the items on the reward list, I recognize specifically as quest rewards from quest NPC turnins.
Re: Items Research
Don't mind me my list got all fubar
Re: Items Research
[quote]Do you get varying results, depending on how "good" you did?[/quote]
Not sure if anyone answered this yet. But the stats on the item would change based on the item grade.
Not sure if anyone answered this yet. But the stats on the item would change based on the item grade.
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John Adams
- Retired
- Posts: 4583
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:40 am
- Location: Phoenix, AZ.
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Re: Items Research
Thank you all for the input thusfar. While Zippyzee is our resident expert on all-things-items, I am not sure I am agreeing with a "base item + stats" theory. What I mean is, it makes sense to do it that way (if I had a hand in designing a system) but in other MMOs databases that I am very familiar with, this is not the case. It is literally:
(short list from eq2 crafted items)
To answer Zippy's question about Parsing items; the Unique is the item_id, based on reviewing tons of duplicate data and seeing that was the only thing unique. However ---
DUH moment:
Looking at our own VG parsed Item data -- there's an item called "Supply Kit", an Acquired item, with 230 "versions" in our raw data. Every "item_id" is unique, causing 230 of them to be parsed. The only different value? "made_by". So, if anything (Zippy) what we tagged as "item_id" might be what you are referring to as the unique_item_id for the player who held it.
Which literally, as I am writing this, shows me I am parsing items wrong but apparently the items packets do not have an soe-provided item_id from their data, like the EQ2 item data had... so I'm open for suggestions. I don't really want to use "item Name" as a unique... I truly believe more than 1 unique item can have the same name.
ok, nm... not a duh moment, I am parsing them correctly, and we really do only have 35k unique items. We'll have to debate just how much of this "uniqueness" needs to be stored in the database, because I don't like the sound of where this is going...
(short list from eq2 crafted items)
name item_type icon tier adventure_default_level soe_item_id soe_item_crc conditioned ash greatstaff Weapon 622 3 18 1982356141 2048041051 [SOE Data] -vs- Conditioned Ash Greatstaff Weapon 622 3 20 274667517 2013162466 [SOE Data] (all 3) Conditioned Ash Greatstaff Weapon 622 3 20 -1461500965 2013162466 " Conditioned Ash Greatstaff Weapon 622 3 20 373043596 2013162466 "Looking at the links to SOE Data, these are clearly 4 different items - there are 4 different item_id's. The stats are different. The level is different between the one with lower-case naming (crude? lowest grade?) and the other 3. But, this is EQ2 data... and it's what I know best.
To answer Zippy's question about Parsing items; the Unique is the item_id, based on reviewing tons of duplicate data and seeing that was the only thing unique. However ---
DUH moment:
Code: Select all
SELECT COUNT(id), item.* FROM `item` GROUP BY `name` HAVING COUNT(id) > 10;Which literally, as I am writing this, shows me I am parsing items wrong but apparently the items packets do not have an soe-provided item_id from their data, like the EQ2 item data had... so I'm open for suggestions. I don't really want to use "item Name" as a unique... I truly believe more than 1 unique item can have the same name.
ok, nm... not a duh moment, I am parsing them correctly, and we really do only have 35k unique items. We'll have to debate just how much of this "uniqueness" needs to be stored in the database, because I don't like the sound of where this is going...
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John Adams
- Retired
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- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:40 am
- Location: Phoenix, AZ.
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Re: Items Research
Okay, Experts; Here's another thing I need some help defining. "Item Types". That is, Armor, Weapon, Bag, Bauble, etc...
From the raw data, here is a list of Unique item_type values, with 1 item next to it to maybe tell you what "type" it is.
[attachment=1]item_types2.jpg[/attachment]
I added Item Type as a filter to VGOPlayers Items Database, so you can go there to pick the corresponding type ID to get more data to make your choice.
[attachment=0]item_types.jpg[/attachment]
If you could, try and turn those IDs into simple names like I mention above. For example:
From the raw data, here is a list of Unique item_type values, with 1 item next to it to maybe tell you what "type" it is.
I added Item Type as a filter to VGOPlayers Items Database, so you can go there to pick the corresponding type ID to get more data to make your choice.
If you could, try and turn those IDs into simple names like I mention above. For example:
type_id type_name 0 Adventuring Shield 1 Adventuring Weapon 2 Crafting Tool 3 Diplomatic Weapon 4 Adventuring Armor 5 Crafting Clothes 6 Diplomatic Clothes 7 Crafting Component 8 Miscellaneous (Client lists 8, 23 & 24 as Miscellaneous) 9 Ranged Weapon 10 Diplomatic Jewelry 11 Adventuring Bag 12 Crafting Bag 13 Adventuring Jewelry 14 Focus Item 15 Harvesting Clothes 16 Harvesting Tool 17 Harvesting Bag 18 Diplomatic Bag 19 Musical Instrument 20 Ranged Ammo 21 Thrown Weapon 22 Crafting Resource 23 Miscellaneous (Client lists 8, 23 & 24 as Miscellaneous) Potions? 24 Miscellaneous (Client lists 8, 23 & 24 as Miscellaneous) Runes? 25 House Furniture 26 Fishing 27 EnhancementsEdit: I went through and identified as many as I could. I wonder why there is no Food type? Didn't we eat in Vanguard?
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Re: Items Research
I should be able to give you the complete type list tomorrow from the client.