Xilias wrote: Depends what level the content is intended for, and whether that's an AE or what. By 55 any caster should have well over 7.6k hp with moderate group buffs imo, but some might be struggling in their lower 50s.
Khabarakh@Seradon wrote: I beg to differ, of course you can reach much higher numbers if you assume anywhere close to raid buffs, but with a 6 character setup and no outside buffing, it's a reach.
Xilias wrote: Interesting. I would've thought that you could comfortably look at 8k+ for a group-buffed 55 caster and 10k+ for raid buffed, but perhaps my figures are skewed. What would you expect a reasonable level of HP for a group-buffed 55 caster to be?
Khabarakh@Seradon wrote: my sorc is specked with some extra con, has end game gear and easily buffs over 10k for raids with civs, raid buffs, meat, etc but... before all that buffing begins, 8k is more like a group and self buffs. My goal, back in the day, was to be able to survive those 8k aoe's until group heals kicked in, not to withstand back to back hits, rage, aoe, etc in a group setting where the usually sole healer has plenty to do keeping tank/self alive. (and not all healers are good group healers) The old rule of "its more efficient to rez a sorc than to heal one" kicks in. So looking at top end HP on a cloth wearer is only relevant if they aren't going to get hit often and have a chance to recover HP before the next blow. Groups cant divide the workload with a variety of classes the way a raid can. So yes, i would be concerned about 7.6k hits on the group as a common occurance.
I only run at like 9k HP "fully" raid buffed. I put quotes as I don't take meat. I didnt put any points into Con either. Haven't found a point in it yet. I can on occasion almost reach 11k if I respec con as my main stat, wear the stupid teraxes belt and take meat, but i hardly do.
Well, here's some numbers for a 55 psi. Naked, with kamelott bag, 3293 hitpoints, specced wis/int con. Full pota T3 gear adds a measly 668 hitpoints, so that's 3961. Jewelry is very tier/class dependant, but i'm guessing most casters are in the area of 4500 to 5500 without any hp buffs. That's it, our survivability didn't really scale all that much since level 50 APW. In some respects it has actually gotten worse with current itemization.
Xilias wrote: Hmm, ok, interesting. My necro is at 5.9k unbuffed, and I've not gone out of my way for HP gear. int/wis with a little con stat allocation, Dark Elf so no racial benefits there. Lich stance puts me right on 7k hp. Had kind of figured that was about ballpark at 55, as I haven't gone out of my way for HP or specced for con. Oh well, I stand corrected.
Yup, one reason for decreased survivability is the fact that pota T3 can be quite the downgrade in raw hitpoints compared to APW for the same 6 slots. From 449 for a psi to 166 for sorcs. Not sure what the point is with the current itemization, but the gap in hitpoints between heavy melee and casters has increased.
We went through and killed some of the trash mobs + some of the new mini-bosses. They seem decently balanced to me (hit points and damage wise) with a few exceptions. -The minotaur hirelings have very low hp, making them a joke to kill. -The stalking flarehounds are chain casting their enchantments (literally non-stop casting) which is healing mobs and making them slightly annoying to kill, though still doable. -The "Planer Orb" or w/e it's called has overboard particle effects and just about gave me a seisure. -The Zull Efreeti Guards stun abilities are going through player abilities designed to prevent stuns (intended?) All in all, the trash was too easy imo. A group of 4 of us with almost no buffs were able to handle them all with little trouble. A fully buffed group with a bard and such would make them a complete joke. But then again, we are the best geared people in game, not sure how this would translate to the average group. On another note, are these mobs itemized at all? We killed many guards and mercenaries, and 0 signal powders dropped. In fact, nothing dropped anything.
In addition to what Brohn was saying I would like to add a few little things. Mobs with any type of enchantement cannot be killed until all enchantments have been stripped. This seems like a bug. The enchantments prevent the mob from losing any hp at all until it is removed, it does not simply make it harder as it does in most other cases by providing the mob the benefits of the enchantment, it literally prevents its health loss. I pounded over 400k dmg into a flarehound and its hp didn't budge 1%. Trash/miniboss hp seems imbalanced. Ghadab the Hand of Wrath (Miniboss?) seemed to have less hp than a Zull Efreeti Guard. Also some of the mobs like the Brutish Mercenaries and the Minotaur Hirelings seem to have too few hp as well, unless they are designed to be small group content. Trash/named are unitemized This prevents us from spawning Boutrous, T'lerac or Hasim, and advancing the main quest. Holes in the world that are visible (locations) 11309 / 14925 / -89076 -23256 / 21346 / -87477 New altar location When you die you still spawn at where the old altar used to be, there is now a mob that paths there. The new altar appears to have disappeared as well, I suggest it be reinstalled to the left of the portal as you face the portal. Would just like to echo the fact that it seems anti stun mechanisms are not working in CoB, will try to come up with the specific abilities later. On group content it seems like a great place for unique abilities such as these to work.
Brohn wrote: This is my concern with balancing this sort of content, it has to either be aimed at the upper-end of the player spectrum or the lower. I'm going to pick that noone in Brohn's group, even 4man with little buffing, would get one-shot by a 7k hit... Is the content aimed at end-game players (i.e. those with a significant number of 'best in slot' items, and a bit of a clue how to play their class), or just at the general 51+ population? Or Start at the lower end of the spectrum and progressively scale up the further in you get (this would be nice, to cater to a wider audience)?
I would like to point out the fact that in the previous build of trash that a lot of the mobs near the portal were 2 and 3 dot mobs, as well as part of the mobs outside the wall. It seemed at that time that about one third or so of the area within CoB was designed for solo or small group content. Obtaining the powders to spawn Boutrous at that time was pretty simple once the trash's hp got balanced in. Now it seems that it is has all been moved to 6 dots, the mobs near the portal are still level 53 and 54 as they were previously but now almost all of them are paired with 2 lesser minions or are involved with a double pull. Are these level 53 and 54 type mobs meant to be small group content? I wouldn't disagree with them either being for small group or a full group but if they are for a full group they should have their health increased signifigantly and if they are for small group they should probably not come in 3 packs. The 3 packs can always be left for the other parts of CoB that continue the quest after Boutros, and increase in difficulty. The mobs outside the wall seem well balanced to me for a small group type situation, the imps, beetles, molten ravagers etc. Maybe now would be a good time for a dev to explain the level of difficulty that is intended for City of Brass, it was stated a long time ago that it was intended to be the hardest content to date. Is it still intended to be for max geared type players at the start, or is there supposed to be a signifigant progression of difficulty within CoB that may allow players without the best of gear to accomplish some things within it?
Brohn wrote: I've gone through another HP balance that should be present in the next build. It looks like the overall base HP on the flarehounds, elementals, and minotaurs were way too low (and the Efreeti and a few other NPC's had a hair too high on their pre-buff HP levels). Sounds like the blue enchantment needs a bit more work. I'll see what I can do to dial back the frequency they're cast at, but the Flarehounds shouldn't be casting the buff (watch for NPC's near them, they're most likely the source of the buffing). Yea, sorry about the size of the particle on the Planar NPC's. I'll try to find something a bit more scale appropriate. The damage portion of the knockdown should be prevented by invulns, but the knockdown effect itself should still be happening regardless. I'm curious how far into the dungeon you guys have made it. From the sounds of the posts so far it looks like it's been just the portal/entry area and the outside around that? The NPC's should get more difficult when you leave that area. As for the items/drops - it looks like they were in the wrong part of the DB (from back when we first started working on the dungeon). They should be present in the next build - sorry about that.
Torveld wrote: The rare spawn NPC's should have a large boost in HP after the next build. The 2 locations you mentioned are on my 'to do' list to fix. I hope to have them corrected in the build after next. The respawn location is a bit trickier, but it's not intended that you respawn where you currently do. The default spawn point for the chunk will be topside at the altar there.
Khabarakh@Seradon wrote: Originally we were going to have the dungeon be aimed at 51+. The current projection is to shoot for something of a side step to Pantheon. It shouldn't require that you have everything best in slot to progress in the dungeon, but it should be challenging to most 55's in all but the entry area. There's still a fair amount of work to be done (adding some ambient NPC's/slaves), and some of the quest content will be subject to change (most notably the escort quest). The overall mob presentation is pretty close to what we're shooting for, though. We appreciate everyone's time, feeback, and concerns as always
Which which general direction do we have to head in order to come across the harder trash mobs inside cob? also brohn wasn't referring to the knockback. i forget which mobs we were clearing but the stun would go through my ironfoe ability and constantly keep me stunned every few seconds. i think it was the mercenaries?
Pretty sure the harder type mobs are the level 56+ mobs like the Ember Magi, Raiders, Slavers, Inquisitors, etc.
On the second part of the quest we needed to kill some mobs for some powders they dont seem to drop... You do have some holes on the floor and probably like 15 of my tombstones .. Other than that looking good... Altar is missing too. If you release and stand around you may get owned by a pathing mob..
