Item Timer Refresh Discussion

This is a thread to voice your concerns with the recent item timer changes or bugs you have discovered.

Earring of sacrifice
Hoop of the arch fiend

both have 5 mins timer so they are useless


Band of Reflection the ring to counter zodifine is useless also only works evry 5 mins and the counter is evry 2mins ...

potion of damage potion of wisdom and so on its to long timers on and trigger 1h and 5 min

please change the timers back to what it was before this change was so unfair and unnessecerly

Crystal Laced Reinforcements also useless triggers the 5 mins timer on evry thing
Psionic gem trigger all the 1 h buffs wich is wrong
same with acient book of Ro

Diplo timers is messed up from the parleys in Pota gods dosent have a coodown on the big cards

Are the item cool down timers the cause of diplomacy timers on cards being mess'd up ?

please Silius change it back to old timers they actualy worked realy well that all timer was a bad thing it messed up so many iteams diplo stuff so its not even funny

Book of morphare trigger 5 minits also so that book is bad now used to be once evry minit

off the top of my head....
book of ro is a random buff like the finch deck. shouldn't share a timer with anything at all.

lesser potion of damage is a short duration buff with a 1 hour refresh

denske lab should be moved to the 1 hour timer and NOT share a timer with the rewards. It's silly.

seething stones, mithril runes of damage, and lesser potions of damage don't share a timer (seething stones and mithril runes used to) which would allow a triple damage bonus. instead of a x2

major raid items should be swapped to a different timer. I can see you're in love with Three but really individual timers make more sense and keeps things cohesive on a lot of levels. basically you're gonna be clicking your best 3 clickies during the burn just like you were before, so i'm missing the net gain in lag.

Flassh@Telon wrote:

No we just found the fix for this. Should be live next patch.

Come on man let me state the obvious first.... we as vetrans have been in this game and stuck by it through thick and thin. The nerf bat comes to clickys??? We farmed and busted our keesters to get every little thing for some extra DPS 1k here 2 k there to kill the high end mobs for a WELL deserved reward. Not to mention that it is a big part of VG to get your main too the best it can be and some classes depend on a 1 or 2 time burst dps set to contribute to raids. Also I will speak for my guild and tell you everytime the devs wanted to test things out we took time out of our RAID days to lend a hand when all of a sudden BAM shut down no word from anyone so it really makes people feel like we got a big POO POO sandwich with this clicky thing.
PART of the reason VG is still here is because of US the subs that never left YOU we farmed and were basically self enforced for years so with nothing to do we worked on getting everything we could to improve.Do me a solid bro you can take all the free augs,my puppy container,fireworks,stuff to change me into a chicken and my wand of shifting image Ill get over it I promise!!! Just leave the clickys ALONE ! You have 3 RAID MOBS in one zone and clickys are causing all the lag??? With all due respect sir this is not the kiddy WOW crew your chatting to many of us are old farts who enjoy the ADULT crowd we game with. The lag was not this bad 3 or 4 months ago with clickys or is it really the F2P thing population boost and the decision was made to broadstroke this "FIX" or "NERF".
P.S Thanks for the 20 fireseeds and berries on a side note ( I take full credit for that one druids praise me) and please stop putting me in a love hate relationship with you im old and I could have a heart attack the rollercoster of emotion is too much!!
CHANGE IT BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS!
Hugs and kisses backslaps and handshakes,
HAWKBANE

please change all the timers back.

Thank you for everyone who has given civil feedback. The following changes have been made for the next patch
Item Timers have been changed to allow more flexibility the new item timers are as follows
Bag and Weapon - 1 Hour
Example: 1 Hour Buff Potions or items like Psionic Gem
Bag and Weapon - 5 Minutes
Example: Book of Morfare or any Temporary Buff Potions
Equipped Items Excluding Weapons- 1 Hour
Example: Hoop of Disciplined Life and Moonsu’s Pendant
Equipped Items Excluding Weapons- 5 Minutes
Example: Ulvari Mask of Speed and Robe of Ulvari Power
Random Buff 1 Hour Cooldown
Example: Finches’s Deck of Mysteries and Book of Ancient Ro
Market Potions – 5 Minutes
Example: Elixir of Health and Elixir of Mana
Crafting and Harvesting Buff Items-5 Minute Cooldown
Example: Seething Stones and Mithril Rune of Damage
Denske’s Lab- 8 Hour
Example: Denske's Portable Alchemy Lab
Sacrificial Beast Items
Hoop of the Arch Fiend and Earring of Sacrifice will each have their own 5 minute UNIQUE cooldown.


Buff durations of some of these items have been adjusted so that the buff duration better matches the cooldown of the item.

In addition Horn of Garsu is now on the 5 second Quest timer.

PUT GCDs ON CLICKIES BACK THE WAY IT WAS !
Its stupid the way you patched it.. and its insulting to the hard work people have put in to get all the stuff they have.
Meteor staff (legendary item), on same timer as denske lab, denske dusts, MH wand, regen potions hp & energy, SOW boots and Starspark stuff.. Brainfart?
Its totally messed up the way it is now.. you rendered about half of my gear useless btw.. not even sure i will keep playing like this..

I also am on the side of completely reverting this unnecessary change. But I will provide some specific feedback anyways.
This nerf affects me differently than most of the posters (mostly tanks/dps who are upset about the nerf to their sustained and more importantly burst damage) since my main is a cleric.
Let me just give an example of how a typical raid engage goes for me before and after this nerf.
Before nerf - Pre engage I am usually using clikies to boost up my wisdom, so that when I click a necro ball I am getting the maximum amount of mana from it. (Assuming I don't have a bard in group upping my stats) I would click things like major potion of wisdom (+50 wisdom), lorebook of the ancients (+25 wisdom), special mixed herbal tea (+50 wisdom), ect. Then, seconds before engage I could use clikies to boost incoming heals on my tank/target like rexalosh, helm of misery or zephyrkin, eye of the mistral storm. Then, throughout the fight I would use various clickies to regain mana, including druid berries, spider necklace, and greater/major potions of energy regen.
Post nerf - Pre engage I am limited to lorebooks and 1 other choice for increased wisdom (and only if I don't want to have my more important cooldowns available for the actual fight). I cannot click major potions of wisdom because they are on the same 1 hour cooldown as my book of Ro. During the fights I am basically limited only to my ring of replenishing haste, spider neck, and druid berries. It is the most powerful clickie and now shares a cooldown with lesser yet still desirable ones like mana pots.

Bottom line here is, I don't see how anything I was doing pre nerf was in any way wrong. What is wrong is taking away the available options I had made for myself. Having spent much time collecting, saving, and grinding enough clickies to sustain my raid schedule. What I was doing was certainly not causing any of this lag that we have only been experiencing recently.

all raid loot need their separate timers
all legendary items need their separate timers

What is basically happening is you are reitemizing all the old clickies throughout the world by changing their timers in some way. Things that used to be minor boosts are now all situational or completely useless. The balance of these items is completely gone, things that had a 2 minute refresh now have a 5 and things that had a 15 minute cooldown now have 5.
I have less of a problem preventing a macro that does /itemuse belt of ages, /itemuse starspark red, /itemuse ulvari mask of speed /cast qj, /cast jin surge. This is going to produce some minor lag, and yes it did produce lag before the server downtime but it was like 25% of how bad it is now at all times, and this only cropped up basically on the iwg burn phase. And yea it did feel kind of abusive gathering some lowby items to stick into a burn macro, but thats my opinion.
What I do have a problem with is the limiting use of raid and 50 + group obtained activated abilities. It doesn't seem it would be too difficult to keep a database of level 50 + mobs that drop loot with activated abilities and allow their timers to be unique to each item, and then keep an eye on those in terms of new balance. While you say that we are now forced to pick which activated ability we want for the right moment what it really means is we all have to pick the most powerful activated ability available in the game for our class and use it throughout that fight or at said specific moment. Which to me is a travesty to force combat, one of the best things about the game to me, into more of a box where everyone presses the same buttons at the same time.
The whole point of the magi raid clickies was to stack them with other abilities when they were created. Things like the Ulvari Mask of Speed, the Ring of Repleneshing Haste and shendu robe were designed with the intention of being stacked onto other abilities and activated abils. Items like the denske powders or the magi hold spellwand were created with refresh timers and durations that were not open for abuse really. Yet now they cannot be used in combination as they were orginally intended, making the spell wand now completely useless because a soldiers powder gives the same benefit plus stats. There was nothing wrong with these items, you could have a 5% regen buff for 10 minutes out of 30, and could have 5% more regen + stats for 2 minutes. Or healing and energy plus stats for 2 minutes as long as you had enough powders saved from the day long cooldown on denske's labroratory. The book of ancient ro was obviously designed to be used with damage potions and other consumables instead of a replacement for it. Ikik gave us these items for a reason and balanced them properly then designed content knowing they would be used this way. Now some of these end game type items have gone from great to useless.
My suggestion summed up is to put non global activated item effects on the 5 second timer and return items that are obtained from level 50+ quests and mobs to their previous cooldowns. I appreciate the thread to discuss, and that you shared your reasons to why it was changed.

The update you just posted is a step forward sillius. Still many of us really liked combining 2 or 3 clickies to get a dps burst going on vital moments. Most of us know that in most of vanguard encounters burst dps is highly prefered over sustained dps. If you wanted to shift that balance some, i dont think taking away the ability to combine clickies is the way to go. taking qj out of the game would be far more effective for that, but wouldnt make you poplular either.
combining these clickies just gives us a fun factor to otherwise boring encounters. Adressing the power of some of the click would perhaps be more acceptable than this major overhaul.
As a disciple for a ranged burn i used core patch, and cloak of dar together and done some ranged attacks, either one of these items would probabaly not make me switch to ranged abilities, but combined they give a nice punch for 8 seconds. they now share a cooldown and its not worth using either of them solo.
I would ask you to review what you wanted to achieve with this change, and perhaps come up with an alternative way to do it. This really doesnt make the game any better / more fun to play for us.
Book of ancient ro should have a unique cooldown.
goodluck,
Alimora

Wigin wrote:

I am not really following what you are saying here. There are two different categorys of cooldowns now for equipped items that aren't weapons that are either 60 minute timer or 5 minutes? And that you can use a market potion at the same time as a bag and weapon 5 minute timer? Does a potion of damage fall under the one hour timer or 5 minute timer? It is a 15 min duration.

I would prefer that stacking issues were addressed, rather than a band-aid fix by screwing with refresh timers. We've already had far too many kneww-jerk band-aid fixes in VG. Please, rollback this change and re-assess how best to address the underlying issues.

Dear Silius, I'd like to ask you to completely revert the change back as it was.
Myself, I've gathered all possible rogue usable clickies in the game so far. I've literally spent hundreds of hours doing that. Farming for them.
The Clickies don't make me overpowered, but they added a small boost (I'm talking about a 10% damage boost or so for 10 seconds etc), mask illusions, extra resistances, etc etc. They were a fun factor. They added more complexity and more character progression to the game. The game lasted for me a lot longer because of them.
I don't think clickies affected the outcome in any fight.
I never noticed they added any lag to be honest. All the lag came from APRIL when you did that 12 hour downtime and something to the servers. Only laggy fight ever was Imperial War Golem, and that was due to something else, probably buff stripping or such. Instead you should work on optimizing the game even further, and clearing the bugs in code that cause the lag.

I repeat myself, do not take this little thing away from the community. It doesn't really make anyone overpowered, but make the game more exciting and funnier. Also as a 5.5 year vet I can tell they have been the only reason I've found things to do while there weren't any content updates. You should look them as things that will make Vanguard more attractive to existing new players gained from the f2p. I'm not saying they make everyone stick longer with Vanguard, but it made me, and I can't be the only one.

Thanks