When are shaman's going to be able to choose the melee PotA armor? Since they can already choose the caster version it doesnt make much since that we cannot choose melee armor? Make it so Hayatets can choose caster, rakurr's can choose melee and Tuurgin's can choose tank.
I have wanted this for a long time and have asked for it many times as I play a Tuurgin Shaman regularly and would love to deck him out in Heavy Armour, like a Cleric can. Since they are both the more pure of the healers, I do not see a problem in allowing Tuurgin Shaman to wear heavy, some say it's OP but Cleric can wear heavy and have invulns and Dps boosts! Tuurgin should be allowed to balance with heavy and its pet Plus this would help Hyatet increase their Dps The Devs would probably need to look into Rakuur Shaman though as they already punch out some pretty serious dps, being able to wear lightfighter dps gear would make them better than a Monk/Rogue.
Well a late reply, but **** Kilsin, wheres the love bru? I have never gotten even close to either Veltan ( Rogue ) or Dielle ( Monk ), and im about as decked as you can get gear and aug wise. As an experienced raider and long time VG player you know you cant judge a class based on 1 or 2 players alone. Its just not fair. Augs, gear, skill, rig it all comes into play. I dont see wolf as OP tbh. It takes alot of work to do well with and time invested in famring augs etc. IMO aswell comparing to my guildmate Krellyn ( Bear ) in longer fights, bear is not far off, in a shorter fight bear gets smoked but in a longer one its not that far of. As for POTA gear, not sure anymore so many other options for a dps set these days. You have a full dps set from the raid mobs out there if you want =) I dont feel locked in at all as the wolf to PoTA. I guess Bird would not be either, can see your issues as a bear though.
I wasn't giving Wolf hate, I love them too man and I know you are a good player My experience with a Wolf Shaman has been varied but I probably shouldn't of based my point from an ex Reverence Wolf Shammy who used to be a dps machine. I understand it does come down to player skill and so on, even ping, lag and PC performance. I just wish the Shaman patrons would be allowed to fully utilise their patron and gear accordingly, wolf included (as long as they don't become too OP lol )
Totally disagree on any Shaman wearing heavy armor. I mean hey, I'm sure a lot of classes would love to wear heavy armor too--Disciples in heavy, Rangers in heavy, Monks in heavy, why not, right? Bear shammies have an off-tank pet--they are not tanks. If you want to wear heavy armor, how about reducing your DPS to be equal to a Clerics? Would you make that trade? And yes, I do have a bear shammie, so this does affect me too.
No. The point wasn't that you can tank so you can wear heavy. The point was that Tuurgin's were classified as a "tank" archetype, rakurr's were "Melee DPS" and Hayatet's were "Caster DPS." Given these characteristics then Tuurgin's should be able to wear heavy tank gear, just as Rakurr's should be able to wear Medium DPS gear and Hayatets should be able to wear Light caster gear. It wasn't just any shaman and it wasnt just because they wanted too.
Naghite (Tuurgin Shaman in my guild) was quite capable of tanking mobs. He was capped in melee mit and spell mit with just his medium gear and still maintain maximum healing capacity. I believe Bonger is also in the same boat.
Yes, I know about the archetypes, but it was supposed to be the bear pet doing the tanking, not the Shaman themselves. That's why their pet is given the hate abilities and not the shaman. And yes, I know some exceptional players can do even more than was envisioned for their class, but I do not want to see class distinctions blurred even more than they have been already. I mean, come on, we already have posts here about how a tank really is not even needed for a group, if you have a monk or disc in the group. Maybe since DKs are the caster archetype of tanks, maybe we need a bunch of powerful dots so we can be more on par with the necro. I mean we are the caster tank, right? So shouldn't we be able to cast just like a real caster class? No? Then why should a shaman get all the advantages of a pure tank class? So Bear Shamen should be the new WoW Druid? I can heal! I can DPS! I can tank! (And yes, bear shammies can turn out some very high DPS numbers) So what job in a group does that leave for everyone else?
I wasn't aware the bear pet was supposed to do the tanking. I also do not think the DK's are the caster tank, nor are they labeled as Caster DPS. It was the inquisitor that was supposed to be the caster tank? I'm not trying to draw a line. The line was already drawn by the labeling incurred by SoE. And in this case i'm only talking about Shamans. I've never played WoW (well not more then a day or two) so I don't know the comparison. As for "What job in a group does that leave for everyone else?" it would be whatever your group is missing. I'm not trying to blur everyone's class roles and make everything the same. I was trying to be "fair" in the sense that Hayatets can choose caster (they are labeled as caster DPS) PotA gear, while Rakuur and Tuurgin cannot wear their respective gear. Yes I know hayatets need a ton of love in their "caster DPS" category as well but that's another story. Some bear's may be able to put out some good DPS numbers, but I doubt they would be ahead of any of the other DPS classes if they are equally geared skilled. The same way that they (bear) should be the worst tank, hayatet should be the worst caster and rakurr should be the worst melee.
It has always been that classes can go down in gear--meaning a heavy wearer can wear non-class-specific medium gear, but not the reverse. But let's face it--a DK wearing light caster gear is not going to be an effective caster and is going to give up the ability to do their basic job. Clerics have different archetypes too, but a DPS Cleric (War) has a penalty of -75% healing when in DPS mode. Caster clerics have -90% healing when in caster mode. What is being asked for here is to upgrade bear shamen to wearing real tank gear with no downside whatsoever--still keeping all their healing and all their DPS. That just doesn't sound right to me. Yes, it is the bear pet that is supposed to do the tanking--that is why the pet has the skills to taunt mobs and the shaman has the skills to heal the bear, not the other way around. If it were the shaman that was supposed to be the tank, then why would the bear pet be given the taunt ability? These shaman archetypes were never labelled this way from the beginning, and I remember quite a furor over the labelling when it first happened on the old forums. It happened back during the 'class lead' days, and that is probably where it came from.
Why would a DK be labelled a caster? We have what...4 spells and 2 of them are hate abilities, I seriously wonder if you actually play a DK sometimes Schiller. I spend 90% of the time meleeing on my DK, no wonder you have aggro issues if you stand there waiting to cast. I was referring to the archetype, Bear = Tank, Wolf = Melee Dps, Bird = Caster Dps. Allowing Shaman to wear the specific armour for their patron equals would have it's consequences. Bear wearing heavy armour would do lower dps, wolf would do more dps at the expense of survivability and same with a bird. I was not asking to use uber armour and continuing to play as normal, that would be OP. There should be a choice though. If my Bear pet is supposed to be a tank then make him a tank instead of a squishy pet with hardly any hp who gets obliterated in any decent AE...
Well now, if I ever find the time to play again, maybe I'll just have to attend one of your PUG raids and show ya! I ain't skeered! I think we have a few more than 4 spells. DK spells: Devour Strength Torture Dark Ward Frighten Shadow Step Word of Doom Symbol of Suffering Abyssal Chains Symbol of Despair Despoil Devour Mind Cull Ominous Fate Aphotic Shield Vile Howl Bane Probably forgot others.... So you feel like the differing stats from heavy gear is enough of a penalty to justify using the gear of another class? Maybe your pet does need to be pumped up quite a bit, but if the bear pet is not the tank, then why did the devs give the pet the taunt ability instead of giving it to the shaman? Answer that question for me. This whole new idea of putting shamen into a classification other than healer was not part of the original game--it was something that came about a year and a half after launch, probably pushed by some self-interested "class lead." It is one thing to allow a class to lean one way or another, being a bit better in one area or another, but something entirely different to allow a class to usurp another's place in the world.
Maybe because it is better for the wolf to die than the shammy who pulled aggro, while the real tank gets the mob back? Do you really think a bear shaman was envisioned as a tank? Seriously? Jakkal, you have been around here a long time, just as I have. Surely you remember how things were for the first year and a half, before this blatant stupidity was added to the forums, and gave shammies this idea that they were tanks. It was commonly known and accepted before that time that the bear shammy had a tank pet. All of this came from the one change on the forums that grouped each shaman archetype into a category other than healer. Now, ever since then, this subject comes up again from time to time, and it seems fewer and fewer people remember the way it was, or that a major screw-up by some goofball on the forums started this whole campaign. People still refer back to this same screw-up as if it gives legitimacy to their claims. Before this forum change, the most pressing concern was having a pet that could tank--could it hold aggro? Could it survive? No one ever questioned whether the pet was the tank or the shaman was the tank. Everyone knew it was the bear that was the tank. Everyone knew it because in those days, a shaman could not tank with the gear available. Now, better gear already blurs the lines, with monks, discs, and shammies all tanking. And some want to blur those lines even more. I do not think that is a good thing.
I would go through your list again Schiller...and properly this time. I think you will find activated abilities and certain other abilities are not "spells". DK is not considered a caster. Period. Actual spells you cast at a mob, so again, maybe you should start logging in and playing more before posting about something you are not familiar with. Counting self buffs and shields is a rookie error. You are welcome to come to our PUG, you will find yourself in offensive stance trying to dps though as our Pally's and Warriors will quickly put you in your place. It is not stupidity and I was around too, classes evolve and change all the time, look at Warriors, Druids, Rangers, Monks, Rogues....the list goes on and on and on, you should know that Schiller, since you claim to have been around as long as some of us. Shaman being able to wear their patron armour is perfectly fine, trying to say all pets are the type of patron and Shaman are just generic healers is not only ridiculous but something someone who has no idea about the class would say, whether you have one or not doesn't mean you understand how the class and three patrons types work. I doubt it will be implemented anyway due to updates changing to bi weekly, Moorgard leaving, class balance and all the other stuff the Producer claimed to be coming we assume to have been stopped and not spoken of and the big project to stop the lag is now 1-2 months past its testing/completion date with no word from anyone on the matter at all. Currently Shaman are unbalanced and need some attention, lower Tuurgin dps and allow heavy armour, raise Hyatet dps and allow to wear caster dps gear and allow Rakuur to wear dps gear and check dps is in line with the patron. I personally hate seeing healers do anything but heal and often leave them out of raids and groups but they should still have the option to go this way if they choose to as their patron has aligned them to a certain archetype.
I'll be honest. The bear pet is not a good tank. Yes it can force taunt, but so can monks, clerics, and rangers. They can tank but they aren't what I consider tanks. While we've used the bear pet in some interesting raid roles (Such as FTing Fengrot) it isn't a real tank as it can't hold aggro. On the other hand, I've seen bear shamans do a great job of tanking, both taking hits and holding aggro. We often used them when we had a lack of tanks. And as Unleashed is still a casual guild we quite often have to improvise. On the other hand, I'm rather opposed to shamans being able to get the same gear as the other archetypes. A wolf shaman can dps, but shouldn't be a dps class, nor should it even compare to pure DPS roles. When wolf shamans can outdps everyone else, then everyone else is just going to roll a wolf shaman. (Not counting exceptional players, I mean on the average). I do think that the three archetype of shamans should get their own unique set of gear/stats that best fits their patron type (Heavy armor, melee dps, caster dps).
Agree, as a former bear I know you are right in this. Bonger/Naghite also have a very special ability that in a raid/group situation with capable DPS would make him basicly unkillable for a minute, all shamans have this ability. Slackers dont use it though. Bears sueprior strength gives them great blocking and paired with their high con etc. Sure they can take the punch but holding aggro vs serious DPS is only achieved my massive grouphealing while also trying to push dps. This cant be kept up due to cooldowns etc. I think bears are rather good for their job, a situational OT. Bears can do that job fantasticly ( if managed by a skilled player ) especially with deafening roar etc. I think gear can be customized very well already due to augs. You want spell mit go Mollis for mit go with the infuse. For dps other options. And with gear I mean you have POTA chest, Karax chest, Sparkles chest etc. Almost every slot have some serious options. On another topic I dont see Shamans as terribly unbalanced anymore, especially since with new gear the bird can really get the advantage of being ranged, the only drawback I would credit bird with is that their dmg conflicts with their heals as they are purely spell based. But id say to maximize the bird you would have to take the same route as the ranger and really combine your strengths. Spells and melee.
