Happy Friday, everybody! Hope you all have exciting weekends planned. If you don't, then there are some big changes on the test server you may be interested in checking out. This thread is the place to discuss those changes. What was changed? Two things happened. We removed the hard caps from stat bonuses from attributes, and then implemented a new formula to determine how those bonuses are calculated. Why did these changes happen? For the first change, we decided to remove caps so that the system is more elegant, and it's boundaries are defined by the system itself, rather than an arbitrary number. The second change had to be done because the old formulas were too complicated, containing a good amount of special cases for certain situations (we're not joking, depending on your level, attribute value, and possibly their relationship to each other, your bonuses could have been calculated using as many as five different formulas). The new formula has no special cases and provides the versatility to be adaptable to all sort of number types (100-based percentages, 0-based percentages, and positive decimals). Where can they be tested? Currently these changes are on the test server. How much has the formula changed my stats? The new formula hasn't changed the numbers by which we are scaling the bonuses by or the base offset. For example, if your Dexterity was at 990 on Live, then your critical hit chance bonus from Dexterity would have been 22%. In the new formulas, those numbers are exactly the same. If your dexterity was higher than 990, your Critical Hit Chance Bonus would have been capped at 22%. Now, it will go beyond that with diminishing returns, according to the formula. So what's the new formula? Here's the new formula: Code: BonusValue = BaseBonus + ( ScaleBonus * SquareRoot( AttributeValue / ( Level * 18 ) ) ) So for Critical Hit Chance Bonus from Dexterity, the BaseBonus is 5 and the ScaleBonus is 17 (these are values as they were prior to the formula update, and still are). This formula applies to calculated stats -- not expendables, resists, or combat identification skills (those don't have caps). For some of them, the ScaleBonus is not a static number, and is determined by a particular skill level (Block, Dodge, and Parry are this way). Anything else? The formula slightly buffs players who have lower investments into their attributes, and certainly buffs those players who have attributes beyond the existing cap of 990. That's all for now. Enjoy the number crunching. =P
Unfortunately I can't do any parses due to certain chunks being closed, mostly magi hold... and in top of that there seems to be some type of problem with spell damage, I’m not doing more than 500 damage no matter what I’m attacking or what spell I’m using. Edit: Comparing my character to the live version I can see that int provides 138.7% increased damage self-buffed as a sorcerer in the live server vs 51.7 using the same buffs in the test server, the amount increases to 56.4 after applying the new BBO for sorcerers. I think that base bonus should be 100 for spell damage being provided by int otherwise casters are going to be nerfed quite a lot. Second edit: I tried attacking a mob after reloging... i'm doing less than 200 damage against a lvl 46 mob... something is horribly wrong here. Third edit: I've found why I was doing less damage than before, my energy surge rank III EE wasn't being applied after relogging, that EE provides extra damage for spells, dying fixed the problem… I still can’t do more than 500 damage per cast.
I'll look into the Spell Damage stuff. Edit - Gresteh, found the issue. Just an FYI, your actual result is just missing 100% from it. So that kinda gives you an idea of what to expect.
OK, after waking up a little and doing some numbers i see what's happening here at least for int. Scalebonus is being considered as 60 instead of 160. There are 2 options to fix this: First one would be setting base bonus to 100 instead of 0 this one would mean a big increase in dps for casters that don’t have 990 int but going beyond 990 would be less advantageous. The second option would be setting scalebonus to 160, that would leave things similar to what we have now and going beyond 990 would be a little more advantageous than with the other option. I would go with the 160 for scalebonus because it maintains the bonuses that are present in the live server. This is only related to the bonus part for int, the lowered damage may be caused by another problem.
If you manage to fix the problem with damage I would appreciate if you opened Magi Hold. I have done many tests against the statue of arakorr and I would link to test the new caps against it, that way I can compare damage against my usual damage in the live server.
Do different classes no longer recieve varying benefits from base attributes? I thought in the past that the different melee classes gained different amounts of benefit from the strength stat.
They still do, and its seriously unbalanced, it needs to be looked in to. I always thought that at least the arch types had the same returns, nothing less true it seems. Took a few samples off my 55 army, and all upped their str to between 770 and 780 with use of the cow augs. (all done on test ofc) Monk: 772 str 854 bonus Bard: 777 str 648 bonus Ranger: 777 str 742 bonus Shaman: 775 str 532 bonus (but gets block from str, even with a 2 hander) Disciple 771 str 666 bonus warrior 773 str 646 bonus (+block) DK 777 str 606 bonus (+block) I really think this should be re-evaluated for the current situation without stats caps. Some classes are going to scale way batter with the uncapped stats than others. Edit: quick test on live shows my disciple with 771 str at 567 bonus. so something did change already too
I always have understood that this was the case, I was always curious as to the reasons behind it but I just assumed it helped create balance within the melee damage dealers. To say that something is not equal therefore is not balanced doesn't really work imo. This is the way it has always been to give the balance we have in todays game which overall isn't terrible. I think it is ok to look at the values and analyze if they need to be changed a bit based on the caps being lifted, but to outright set everyones bonus gain from strength to the same seems a bit wrong and imbalancing.
It is that way because different classes get additional bonuses based on stats, and different archetype get different general powers. Tanks get block from str. They also have higher overall mit gains. Healers..... Have heals. (Go roll a dps if you want to complain) Bards have a higher influence from int. Rangers mix dex/str for dmg bonuses Dk's have spell dmg where warriors do not, etc... Equality does not mean all the same.
The sham spell Scaling boom of Rakurr buff can not be clicked off Scaling spirit's bountiful blessing buff can be clicked off Mass boom of Rakurr buff can not be clicked off Mass spirit's bountiful blessing buff can be clicked off / also no spell effects when you cast the spell Totemic recovery should heal for 3352 , its only healing for 1114 checked the all other healing spells they are reduced in effectiveness anytime you take off Pota t2 gear it puts you into combat mode for a few secs it also happens when you try to put on pota t2 gear run speed seem very high. my vit is 617 have griffon neck item on +15 to run: unbuffed current speed no mounts 118.73 self Buffed/Rakurr buffs 340 talfyin hound on ( unbuffed) 512 self Buffed/Rakurr buffs 924.15 Venerable Grffon ground speed (unbuffed) 411.6, self Buffed/Rakurr buffs 644.35 Venerable Grffon flying speed (unbuffed) 633.6 self Buffed/Rakurr buffs 1301.85 horse shoes , tacks and the saddle bags .....taking them on or off doesn't not increase or reduce your speed
Here is a chart that I hope is accurate that should represent the gain from dex and the diminishing return formula. It is showing that at 345 dex you will have a much higher crit chance than previously from that same dex, 15% new, vs probably about 10% currently. I don't really have too much problem with that overall. It seems to show pretty fair values required once you get past the current stat cap, it should increase a bit and i think the amount of diminishing returns seems within reason. I think the dex formula is overall pretty good if this is accurate.
Part of these changes i belive has been stated to be providing clarity towards players, this, is definatly none of that. Not seeing a clear fix for it, but it really needs to be looked into, epsecially with uncapped stats. The values are also vastly different from live, suggesting there was a possible accidental change
Is CON treated the same way or is it a flat amount of HP added per point of CON? Also this doesn't make sense to me. You've all ready flagged the major Core Enhancers as unique so that if you wanted a very specific build for an item that you wouldn't be able to do 3 majors; you'd only be able to slot in one major, one normal and one minor. And now we're getting a second round of diminishing returns? Not a fan of this new, scaling formula. You're basically telling us that stats are now uncapped so enjoy building your toon as you see fit but you've developed three systems to limit alpha builds: item limitations, scaling attribute bonuses with diminishing returns and the Defiance system.
I don't think anyone believed for a second that "Uncapped stats" were going to happen at face value - especially in light of gear nerfing and the BBO system cancelling buff stacking as a concept. I'm not trying to be negative here, just a realist. Yes, there are three levels of policing in place for this "uncapped" system. The net result is the ability to create better "gear" by raising the attributes on previous incarnations by small amounts and calling it an upgrade. This way they don't need to watch player scaling, the upgraded gear gives a net profit of 0.02% better overall character performance, and you just grinded another month in their game completely happy to see larger numbers that don't mean anything.
Using the formulas above, this is a visual of what the diminished critical chance setup looks like compared to the original at given attribute values.
The same 1370 to hit 25% would have been hit at 1044 (990 for old 22% cap + 3*18). Am I to guess that the scaling modifier in the system for STR/INT is 60% and the base is set at 100%? Kind of hard to test when the bonus to damage pools hasn't been patched yet on test.
First, thanks Dielle for posting that graphic. That does a great job of describing it. Kimja, each limitation addresses something different. Defiance is a flat multiplier, so it's not really a diminishing return. The limitation on items is aimed at limiting alpha builds and creates an incentive to spread out your stats. The diminishing returns for this formula is necessary because of the nature of the value it's representing. Crit Chance is a 100-based percentage, so linear gains would inflate the number too quickly before reaching it's natural cap. Compare this with Health, which has no natural cap, and can therefore increase linearly (which is actually exponentially, because there are several components which affect in linearly, and combined create a curved growth). Kimja, you are correct about Str/Int. I will admit, that have found some reporting bugs on the client where they aren't always giving the right number. All I can say is that the numbers have not changed. Only the formula has. The formula will end up representing the numbers the exact same for a character who keeps their attribute to the 'max' influence of their level. Those bugs will be addressed with public release notes. Kimja, Con's influence on HP follows a different formula. I may have forgotten to clarify, but the formula is intended to work with Calculated Statistics. Constitution's influence on Health is different (because the nature of the stat is different). The waters of Vanguard's statistics system is pretty murky, and hopefully we can begin to clear it up so that the terminology we see internally better reflects the terms known by the players (or visa-versa).
Correct about Base=100, Scaling=60? Because if my math is correct, then a 100% concentrated INT/STR build (50,40,30 on every piece of gear) would yield 2400 INT/STR (120 points x 20 gear slots), which would correlate to a base damage of 193% on its own. No WIS/DEX or CON allocations, just primary alpha build for glass cannons. Toons probably have something like 400 to 600 allocated to primary attribute damage pools, so we're going to find those toons specc'd for damage running somewhere around 200% or more with attribute allocations and BBO buffs? I'm just trying to run through these numbers ... Not giving an indication whether or not they are good or bad long-term for the game but with flat damage mods, bard songs and temp buffs, that's going to create some pretty stellar numbers.
